Comments on: Pacific Wren, Part One

By: The Changes Are In « Earbirding.com

The Changes Are In « Earbirding.com — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:08:29 +0000

[...] Winter Wren is split into three species: Pacific Wren (Troglodytes pacificus) in northwestern North America; Winter Wren (Troglodytes hiemalis) in eastern North America; and Eurasian Wren (Troglodytes troglodytes) in the Old World. Vocal differences were important in this split; see my older posts on how to separate Pacific from Winter Wrens by song and call. [...]

By: Mymm Ackley

Mymm Ackley — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 03:16:09 +0000

Dear Nathan,

You can delete all the stuff I’ve written to you up to know re IDing the two wrens! I am satisfied I truly DO have them both now as lifers and my outdated meanderings are just cluttering up your blog. But when the time comes to change my Avisys records, I would greatly appreciate knowing how to deal with the upcoming split! Like Step 1, Step 2, etc. THAT is more daunting than trying to ID the wrens! Thanks much! Mymm

By: Pacific Wren’s a Done Deal « Earbirding.com

Pacific Wren’s a Done Deal « Earbirding.com — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:27:08 +0000

[...] sounds remain a key distinction between these species; see my earlier posts on differentiating them by call and by [...]

By: Mymm Ackley

Mymm Ackley — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:43:52 +0000

Today (12/17/09) I had absolutely SMASHING looks at Bill Maynard’s EASTERN Winter Wren up at Fountain Creek. I didn’t go up there feeling very sanguine about seeing and/or hearing it as I have NEVER encountered a WW on my own in Colorado. (Only the Pacificus species in Oregon.) Even though Bill had given excellent directions to one of the exact spots where he’d seen it, it STILL took me about 2 1/2 hours of trudging back and forth and/or sitting momentarily in this spot or that spot in the dry channel before I got lucky. BUT BOY WAS IT EVER WORTH THE WAIT! I finally nabbed it up by the boulders near where the irrigation water comes out (in the summer)–a place I’d sat in several times before! But I must have been sitting on the wrong side of the channel! Anyway, suddenly the little fellow landed in a bush across from me and put on quite a show! I have NEVER had such a satisfying experience with a WW! He was bobbing and ducking this way and that as if to show off all sides of him! I even watched his little throat moving as he called! Through my Songfinder it just sounded like “Chip, Chip, Chip, Chip, Chip. Or maybe “Cheep, cheep, cheep, cheep, cheep”–very ordinary and not even rhythmic. But of course since the Songfinder lowers the pitch of everything, it’s hard to judge what he REALLY sounded like.
His color in front was very light–from under his chin way down into his lower belly. Only the tips of his wings–laid back against his body–and his little tail seemed reddish. If he really WAS the eastern wren he’ll be a LIFER for me, after the split. Assuming of course, that Bill called him right. And if Bill Maynard doesn’t know, who does? I would like to have seen the other one up there for comparison–though I already have Pacificus from both Oregon and Alaska. I tried a little in the afternoon, but the directions were not as precise as for the “eastern” so I didn’t linger. Since the two wrens are really rather close together spatially–within easy walking distance–I wonder if they might be a pair? I mean how possible is it that TWO WWs would be within such a short distance of each other? Also, how much color variation–light to dark–might they show individually? And/or do they possibly interbreed, etc.? These are just a few questions I’ve been mulling over….in the end I will probably go ahead and count the wren as an eastern Hyemalis, or however it is you spell that.Thanks, Bill!

By: Which Wren? | Bird Watching Blog

Which Wren? | Bird Watching Blog — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 03:19:41 +0000

[...] references such as the call tracks of Eastern and Western (Pacific) Winter Wrens on BirdsEye and on Nathan Pieplow’s excellent Earbirding blog post regarding Pacific vs. Eastern Wren calls. I’m worried, though, that it doesn’t quite look right to me for a slam-dunk Pacific [...]

By: Eric DeFonso

Eric DeFonso — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 15:38:29 +0000

Mymm, the last time I recall a Winter Wren being found in Fort Collins (about 3-4 years ago by Tony Leukering down by the Poudre River), it was the Pacific form. So even if the eastern form occurs more commonly in Colorado or even Fort Collins, there’s just no way to assert confidently that you encountered one or the other in that instance.

For now, I’m off to Longmont in a bit to find this bird (or hopefully, birds) and try to listen for their calls.

By: Mymm Ackley

Mymm Ackley — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 03:26:44 +0000

My, we’re having quite a conversation about these wrens! Just now I tried listening to the wrens through my Songfinder, standing about 15-18 feet away. AND THEY WERE MAGNIFIED! However,it was much harder to distinguish qualitative differences–probably ‘cuz the Songfinder lowers the pitch of everything. But with a little practice I was finally able to tell that the Pacific sounded more brusque and mechanical and the Winter had a bit more musical timbre. This tells me two things: 1) that I probably WOULD be able to hear a W.W. calling in the field through my Songfinder, assuming it wasn’t more than 15 feet away and everything was quiet and 2) that I’d have to really work at analysing the song quality in a way people with normal hearing wouldn’t. If I KNEW for certain that Eastern one was going to hang around there near Boulder, I’d be willing to go for it…since I’d probably be banking another LIFER! But it is too far to go, too cold!, and too chancy knowing these wrens! Perhaps one’ll turn up here at Valco! Mymm

By: Nathan Pieplow

Nathan Pieplow — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:34:52 +0000

Mymm,

You’re right, the patterns are too complex and variable to be of much help in distinguishing these wrens. But the difference in tone quality is noticeable.

Are you using your Songfinder to listen to the recordings on the computer? If not, give it a try. If you can hear what’s on the computer, you should be able to hear the wrens in your Songfinder in the field.

By: Mymm Ackley

Mymm Ackley — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 04:11:50 +0000

Dear Nathan,

I have listened carefully to these two wren songs and the only OBVIOUS difference to me is that the Pacific Wren’s seems drier and wispier with less overtones, and thus less musical richness than the Winter’s. (Of course, this could have something to do with the recording equipment, distance from the birds, etc.) A more subtle difference is the syncopation at the end of the Winter Wren’s song–which makes his more interesting! However, this could just be an accident! I really couldn’t find any consistent PATTERNS anywhere in the two songs. One goes 3,2,2,1,3,2,2,2,2,2,4 fast, 5 syncopated and 5 more syncopated differently. The other much simpler one of the “Pacific” Wren goes 2,4+3, 3,1,3,2,3,3,3,3. I’d have to have an awful lot of experience with the calls of BOTH to sort all this out! I probably couldn’t hear EITHER wren, even with my songfinder on! (Songfinders lower the pitch, so that could pose a problem!)I don’t expect to EVER list the “Eastern” one in Colorado ‘cuz of my hearing problem…but I’ve enjoyed analyzing musically your two examples which I COULD hear! I was hoping the comparison would be more like that of Eastern vrs. Western Wood Pewee. But this bird isn’t one of those obvious duos–unfortunately! Mymm

By: Dr. Dominique Roche

Dr. Dominique Roche — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:52:43 +0000

Dear Nathan Pieplow,

As a birder in my youth in France I had extensive knowledge of the troglodyte mignon (T. troglodytes). In the eatern US as well as in the rain forest of Oregon when I heard the song of a troglodytes so “close, quasi identical” to that of the European form, I always thought that I have been dealing with the same and unique species. Actually this may be the only passerine with the same song accross the two continents.
I have serious problems with the excessive tendancy of making new species.
You indicate that no hybrids are known between the two forms. Let’s be realistic! Who looks at both parents of winter wren feeding a progeny in the dark underwoods! It is obviously a lot easier as a bird grows up to characterize an hybrid duck or gull!
This is my two-cents!
You have an interesting article. nevertheless.

Dominique